Comments on: Morality and What We Wear http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/ Jillian C. York is a freelance writer and blogger. Sun, 20 May 2012 03:50:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: L. Cohen http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-4406 L. Cohen Fri, 27 Aug 2010 17:16:37 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-4406 hi.... I have just come across this blog. I normally do not read this stuff, nor do I respond. But this blog seems to have intelligent people on it, with valid arguments. So just to clear a few things up let me first say that in no way was I ever a public figure, and the blog was removed after we threatened the blogger with malice, her lawyer agreed that it was in fact malice and demanded she remove the blog. Secondly, the only way I could get the identity of the blogger was to sue, there are NO other options. Once I learned who was responsible for it, I realized that suing her for any money would simply be a waste of time, since she does not have much to begin with. I did have a cilvil conversation with her after the NY Post exposed who she was, and she did apologize and we have a legal agreement and settlement (that does not include any financial gain), a written apology and a retraction of everything she wrote about me. If I was in all this for the press, wouldn't I have made the press write about these? They do still ask me for any new things that are going on, I simply walk away and never say a word. Everyone in life has a picture that if cropped the right way and manipulated can be viewed in a negative light. If the actual pictures and stories were written and posted, you all would see how silly this really is. I did not sue for the silly names she called me, I sued for other things that were written in that blog, that have never been leaked to the press as to not defame me further. And it would have been very easy to prove that the things she wrote about me were all lies and defamation, and she knew it, hence why she wanted to find the quickest way out. She was the one hit with her lawyers legal fee's and Googles legal fee's upwards of 100 thousand dollars, so was her free blog really worth it? I know she doesn't think so now. People can judge and assume all they want, but know that the truth is never what is in the press, the media manipulates everything to the best of their ability and always has. So now I have to have an online label, and these words are words I will have to get accustomed with, but if my fight saves even one persons life, if my law suit set a precedent and will make one person think twice before defaming another, then it is all worth it. Maybe all of you should think about what it is like to be on the receiving end of this drama. I did nothing wrong, I live my life honestly and with integrity and self respect. I wonder if she can say the same thing? Her actions will always have a negative effect on my life, but anyone that matters in my life, and for me it doesn't matter anyone. I know I am a good person, and nothing like how she depicted me. Jealousy and envy are terrible things, and nobody should lets these feelings rule their lives. hi…. I have just come across this blog. I normally do not read this stuff, nor do I respond. But this blog seems to have intelligent people on it, with valid arguments. So just to clear a few things up let me first say that in no way was I ever a public figure, and the blog was removed after we threatened the blogger with malice, her lawyer agreed that it was in fact malice and demanded she remove the blog. Secondly, the only way I could get the identity of the blogger was to sue, there are NO other options. Once I learned who was responsible for it, I realized that suing her for any money would simply be a waste of time, since she does not have much to begin with. I did have a cilvil conversation with her after the NY Post exposed who she was, and she did apologize and we have a legal agreement and settlement (that does not include any financial gain), a written apology and a retraction of everything she wrote about me. If I was in all this for the press, wouldn’t I have made the press write about these? They do still ask me for any new things that are going on, I simply walk away and never say a word.
Everyone in life has a picture that if cropped the right way and manipulated can be viewed in a negative light. If the actual pictures and stories were written and posted, you all would see how silly this really is.
I did not sue for the silly names she called me, I sued for other things that were written in that blog, that have never been leaked to the press as to not defame me further. And it would have been very easy to prove that the things she wrote about me were all lies and defamation, and she knew it, hence why she wanted to find the quickest way out. She was the one hit with her lawyers legal fee’s and Googles legal fee’s upwards of 100 thousand dollars, so was her free blog really worth it? I know she doesn’t think so now. People can judge and assume all they want, but know that the truth is never what is in the press, the media manipulates everything to the best of their ability and always has.
So now I have to have an online label, and these words are words I will have to get accustomed with, but if my fight saves even one persons life, if my law suit set a precedent and will make one person think twice before defaming another, then it is all worth it.
Maybe all of you should think about what it is like to be on the receiving end of this drama.
I did nothing wrong, I live my life honestly and with integrity and self respect. I wonder if she can say the same thing? Her actions will always have a negative effect on my life, but anyone that matters in my life, and for me it doesn’t matter anyone. I know I am a good person, and nothing like how she depicted me.
Jealousy and envy are terrible things, and nobody should lets these feelings rule their lives.

]]> By: single-parent http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-3320 single-parent Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:44:18 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-3320 Great article, Good work! Great article, Good work!

]]> By: Brown http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2572 Brown Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:46:49 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2572 Are you a professional journalist? You write very well. Are you a professional journalist? You write very well.

]]> By: Jillian http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2569 Jillian Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:51:24 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2569 I agree that Bush is a criminal...but I don't agree that this blogger is necessarily one. Is it a crime to call someone names? Does it matter if those names are a true reflection of the person's character or not? I agree that Bush is a criminal…but I don’t agree that this blogger is necessarily one. Is it a crime to call someone names? Does it matter if those names are a true reflection of the person’s character or not?

]]> By: razan http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2568 razan Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:22:21 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2568 I was rather arguing theoretically speaking, cause legally speaking, some are still trying to file a lawsuit against bush :) but that still makes him a criminal. as for photographs and american context, it's the firs time i hear about this, and since i know nothing about, i can only be amazed. I was rather arguing theoretically speaking, cause legally speaking, some are still trying to file a lawsuit against bush :) but that still makes him a criminal.
as for photographs and american context, it’s the firs time i hear about this, and since i know nothing about, i can only be amazed.

]]> By: Jillian http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2567 Jillian Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2567 Razan, (Sorry, first of all, for not being able to reply in the thread; I'm working on getting that fixed). The issues you raised are all good points, but again, to the best of my legal knowledge, she has no recourse for legal action: 1) She doesn't have a defamation case for the reasons we've already discussed. 2) She doesn't have a harassment case for the fact that the comments were elsewhere on the Web and not intended to harass (of course, she could try to prove that they were, but the facts speak for themselves) 3) She was not being stalked - the person made no attempt to even contact her 4) Legally speaking, as a celebrity/public figure, she is subject to a certain allowance of public criticisms that we non-famous people aren't (though again, it could perhaps be argued that she's not actually that famous). I have, obviously, mixed my personal sentiments and those more legal sentiments in this discussion, so it's gotten a bit convoluted. That said, my above defense relates to the fact that I believe Cohen has no legal recourse whatsoever, despite how "offended" she might be. As for the Facebook issue, in the US, Facebook photos have been used in court - for example, there have been more than one case where a person claimed a certain injury and was then seen in Facebook photos skiing or playing sports. In another instance, there was a reckless driving/manslaughter case where the person who committed the crime was shown (in FB photos) to be out partying. Legally, at least in the US system, one's moral character can be determined on the basis of photographs. So whether or not it's okay for me to judge her (and I haven't said that it is), it's completely acceptable for her character to be judged in a court of law based on photos such as the one above. (Incidentally, if there are any lawyers reading this, feel free to offer contradiction, as I admittedly am not a legal expert and could certainly be wrong about certain facts). Razan,

(Sorry, first of all, for not being able to reply in the thread; I’m working on getting that fixed).

The issues you raised are all good points, but again, to the best of my legal knowledge, she has no recourse for legal action:

1) She doesn’t have a defamation case for the reasons we’ve already discussed.
2) She doesn’t have a harassment case for the fact that the comments were elsewhere on the Web and not intended to harass (of course, she could try to prove that they were, but the facts speak for themselves)
3) She was not being stalked – the person made no attempt to even contact her
4) Legally speaking, as a celebrity/public figure, she is subject to a certain allowance of public criticisms that we non-famous people aren’t (though again, it could perhaps be argued that she’s not actually that famous).

I have, obviously, mixed my personal sentiments and those more legal sentiments in this discussion, so it’s gotten a bit convoluted. That said, my above defense relates to the fact that I believe Cohen has no legal recourse whatsoever, despite how “offended” she might be.

As for the Facebook issue, in the US, Facebook photos have been used in court – for example, there have been more than one case where a person claimed a certain injury and was then seen in Facebook photos skiing or playing sports. In another instance, there was a reckless driving/manslaughter case where the person who committed the crime was shown (in FB photos) to be out partying.

Legally, at least in the US system, one’s moral character can be determined on the basis of photographs. So whether or not it’s okay for me to judge her (and I haven’t said that it is), it’s completely acceptable for her character to be judged in a court of law based on photos such as the one above.

(Incidentally, if there are any lawyers reading this, feel free to offer contradiction, as I admittedly am not a legal expert and could certainly be wrong about certain facts).

]]> By: razan http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2566 razan Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:01:50 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2566 Dear Jillian, I did not mention Cohen in my comment to suggest my case and hers are similar. I am very aware it isn't, but not based on the reasons you mentioned: I dont understand why the comment "should" be on her own blog-if she has one- to be bothered with it? she cant be bothered with it on other people's blog? this case is not worth the attention because the other blog not a "well known blogger"? i dont understand seriously. someone called her names, she was offended, she wants to do something about it, period. That being said, even if she really is filing this lawsuit to self-promote herself, does that make, the case itself, less powerful? the only thing that is wrong with this case is this: it's a defamation lawsuit. you said to Anas: "If Ms. Cohen is then conducting herself like a porn actress (as one might attest by the above photo), then is it okay to judge her on that?" "judge"? no its not, it's not ok to judge anyone, as far as i am concerned. how many photos are like the one above on facebook? all of them are subject to our judgment? honestly i am quite shocked right now. are we talking about a stupid lawsuit or about a porn star who filed a lawsuit to defend herself? i think things are getting mixed up here, i dont know if the problem to you, dear jillian, is about the wrong approach she took to sue this blogger, or about her photo, or about her self-promotion. as i told you on chat, if she appears naked in public, she should "expect" bullshit from people, but she should not "accept" it. Dear Jillian,
I did not mention Cohen in my comment to suggest my case and hers are similar. I am very aware it isn’t, but not based on the reasons you mentioned:
I dont understand why the comment “should” be on her own blog-if she has one- to be bothered with it? she cant be bothered with it on other people’s blog? this case is not worth the attention because the other blog not a “well known blogger”? i dont understand seriously. someone called her names, she was offended, she wants to do something about it, period.

That being said, even if she really is filing this lawsuit to self-promote herself, does that make, the case itself, less powerful?

the only thing that is wrong with this case is this: it’s a defamation lawsuit.

you said to Anas:
“If Ms. Cohen is then conducting herself like a porn actress (as one might attest by the above photo), then is it okay to judge her on that?”

“judge”? no its not, it’s not ok to judge anyone, as far as i am concerned.
how many photos are like the one above on facebook? all of them are subject to our judgment? honestly i am quite shocked right now.

are we talking about a stupid lawsuit or about a porn star who filed a lawsuit to defend herself?
i think things are getting mixed up here, i dont know if the problem to you, dear jillian, is about the wrong approach she took to sue this blogger, or about her photo, or about her self-promotion.
as i told you on chat, if she appears naked in public, she should “expect” bullshit from people, but she should not “accept” it.

]]> By: Anas Qtiesh http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2565 Anas Qtiesh Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:32:08 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2565 As I said, if that's the case (and I assume it is) then it's reasonable for people to question her morality. Yet still, it's something I don't do for a many reasons, the morals being subjective is one. As I said, if that’s the case (and I assume it is) then it’s reasonable for people to question her morality. Yet still, it’s something I don’t do for a many reasons, the morals being subjective is one.

]]> By: Jillian http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2564 Jillian Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:26:40 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2564 Anas, You said: <blockquote>The notion of morality (and that doesn’t mean I condone judging people by that) should be limited to a person’s conduct, not wardrobe.</blockquote> If Ms. Cohen is then conducting herself like a porn actress (as one might attest by the above photo), then is it okay to judge her on that? Anas,

You said:

The notion of morality (and that doesn’t mean I condone judging people by that) should be limited to a person’s conduct, not wardrobe.

If Ms. Cohen is then conducting herself like a porn actress (as one might attest by the above photo), then is it okay to judge her on that?

]]> By: Anas Qtiesh http://jilliancyork.com/2009/08/19/morality-and-what-we-wear/#comment-2563 Anas Qtiesh Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:25:07 +0000 http://jilliancyork.com/?p=571#comment-2563 I agree with Razan on this: <blockquote>As for judging people’s moralities based on their clothing, it’s seriously a bullshit idea, let alone misleading.</blockquote> I've never understood why it's ok to wear bikini or even a one piece bathing suit on a public beach, but not ok to show just as much skin going to the local super market to buy groceries or go watch a movie for instance. The notion of morality (and that doesn't mean I condone judging people by that) should be limited to a person's conduct, not wardrobe. I agree with Razan on this:

As for judging people’s moralities based on their clothing, it’s seriously a bullshit idea, let alone misleading.

I’ve never understood why it’s ok to wear bikini or even a one piece bathing suit on a public beach, but not ok to show just as much skin going to the local super market to buy groceries or go watch a movie for instance.

The notion of morality (and that doesn’t mean I condone judging people by that) should be limited to a person’s conduct, not wardrobe.

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